The fabulous Rachel Maddow is the guest on Colbert tonight! Let us enjoy…
Rachel’s half Newfie? Dang, eh.
Our Queen. In Addidas.
She has pretty eyes under those glasses.
damn, I don’t think I’ll be able to stay awake on the west coast. Have to catch up online. Her hair looked a bit redder on her show tonight — did she warm up the color a bit? looks good.
Dark brown as far as I can tell.
@ManchuCandidate: Ah, probably my crappy old TV.
Given the passage of Prop 8 in CA and the intense disgust and outrage I feel I want to let you all know that Lyndon LaDouche is dead. He was never me, merely a nickname I thought up on a whim to get registered at Wonkette.
I can’t sleep or think since the enormous defeat of civil rights in this country on Tuesday. Make no mistake: they do it to display their power and silence the opposition. So far it’s worked. But make no mistake. You are next.
PS. Got rid of the stupid avatar. Forgot to cancel it for previous post.
@Benedick: Welcome Benedick – but I’m seeing the old Lyndon LaDouche avatar that I love. And you’ll always be Lyndon to me.
I keep see-sawing between giddy joy and giddy disgust from Unicorn and Prop. 8. I feel like my true depressive nature is finally shining through.
Those glasses. They reminded me of “Brains” from the Thunderbirds.
And what was with all the ducking of the head? Was she embarrassed?
@SanFranLefty: Dear SFL, I’m not depressive but I am mad. It wasn’t actually my fight and will have little impact on my life. I’m sure that CT will be the next stop. We now have a Democratic senate and congress in NY for the first time since the Depression. Doubtless, same-sex marriage will come up and we’ll have to go through it all again.
Dan Savage said it best: All these anti-gay initiatives are like a dog whistle that has gays bouncing off the walls but straights can’t hear. (Meaning society at large and not our stinquer comrades, of course.)
Pareene at Gawker nailed it:
Changed America Still Hates the Gays
@Benedick: @SanFranLefty: I have spent 48 hours with extreme hatred going through my mind against fundamentalists and Mormons, and it has resulted in severe literal headaches and extreme manic, bipolar rage to the point where I have actually opening implied that people should firebomb LDS temples. That is wrong.
The word went out to several blogs in the Mormonisphere, and I attempted to apologize and explain my position and our anger. The Mormon church’s spokeswoman in Utah called for protesters and other people who are inflammed, on both sides, to calm it down and treat one another with civility and respect.
All I got was the standard hellbound crap, as well as “you deserve death,” come back when you can logically argue about this,” etc. Nothing about “how we want you to be closer to God and that you can change.” Nothing about loving the sinner, the standard line of the fundies.
I should never have tried.
I remember something from the fifth chapter of Matthew where Jesus said the two essential commandments — or what some theologians see as the commandments that superseded the damnation and the hateful laws in the Old Testament — were love God and love they neighbor as thyself — and loving your enemy.
They will never accept us. They will do everything in their power from preventing us from living our lives the way we should be able to, and will do everything to eradicate any diversity or tolerance.
Our anger is justified, but when it becomes all-consuming, as it has been for me, it becomes destructive.
I am not Jesus, Gandhi, Allah, Dr. King or anyone else who subscribed truly to the precept of loving your enemy. I can’t do it.
But I refuse to let them cause me to have a brain hemorrhage. My rage to the point where I want to throw rocks at them is now a grudge. It’s not outright wanting to hurt them physically or vandalize their property, but a simmering resentment. And that is all I can hope for right now. I will not try to force emotions on myself that I cannot feel.
And indeed, my beloved Stinquers and comrades, I am truly grateful for everyone’s support.
@Original Andrew: And this sums up how we Obamagheyz felt:
This is like when London won the Olympics one day and the next day had a terrorist attack.
Now imagine this scenario: Millions of African Americans work their asses off and donate money they don’t have to elect the first gay president, then exit polls reveal that 70% of gays voted for a successful ban on black marriages. They might get “domestic partnerships” in a couple of states, but largely they’ll get nothing. Cue the meltdown in 5… 4… 3… 2…
We’re just going to have to wait for the older generation to die off. It’s sad, but that’s reality. You cannot win arguments with religious fanatics or brick walls. I mean, it’s not like all the despicable racists in this nation’s past woke up one day, realized that they’re evil assholes then vowed to be better people. No, they died off. This is the US after all, where our society never learns anything from our mistakes and shows an astonishing lack of empathy and a general hostility towards the well-being of others.
In the meantime, the best thing for us to do is to try to focus on the good in life, and offer each other love, acceptance and support.
@Original Andrew: I’m so mad at the way our side conducted the campaign. The involvement of the LDS church was a gift to us. There’s a site – yeson8donors – that lists all the donors to the campaign over $1,000 plus their affiliation, if any, with the LDS church. The woman who compiled the site was vilified on left-leaning news blogs which didn’t understand her own stealth campaign. And what does it say about a church when one of its own members is afraid of the repercussions if she is found to be speaking out against an unstated and secret policy?
I think that D Savage is entirely wrong when he starts to get huffy about black support of prop 8. If we don’t educate people then we really can’t blame them if they don’t understand. And black Americans have always been socially conservative. It’s a result of their history and culture. We can’t blame them for that or allow racist talk to surface among us. Personally I think we need to stop calling people bigots and homophobes. I don’t think it helps. I remain outraged at the truly terrible campaign that was waged in CA. I’m very grateful to SFL for her work and I don’t mean that aspect of it. But those ads!!!!!!!!!
We need to out the LDS church. As I wrote here before, they did the same thing to the ERA. They pumped millions into the fight to stop it. They were very effective. Women don’t know that. They should. As the legal fight continues in CA we need to concentrate our resources in the ACLU. Unless SFL has a better idea. I’d be grateful for any advice.
I’m also going to see if there’s any way to encourage gay men and women, and any other friendly parties, to boycott Sundance.
@Benedick: We can demand the IRS rescind their 501(c)(3) status, to begin with. There are nightly protests in front of Mormon churches in L.A.
The No on 8 campaign didn’t get its sea legs until too late in the game. Initially they used a message for “Equal Rights for All,” and then using Rptrcub’s lingo, file under “Department of You are Not Helping” Mayor McDreamy gave a press conference where he screeched “Gay marriage is here to stay” and then three weeks before the vote, two incredibly self-indulgent and moronic lesbians thought it’d be an awesome idea to bring one of the bride’s class of 6-year-old first graders (from a SF public school) to City Hall to witness a “teachable moment” and oh yeah, they invited the Chronicle to come cover the wedding in a gushing moment. When I saw that story on the front page of the paper, I said, “Oh fuck, we have lost this election.” And then the ads featuring DiFi and the ads targeting African-Americans talking about stripping people of their civil rights didn’t start airing until a week before the election, way after early voting had started.
I know that thousands of people worked really hard on the No on 8 campaign, and I can Monday morning quarterback it to death. They didn’t speak the language of the supporters of Prop. 8, and so it never got through to them. The reason the vote is closer this time than a few years ago is purely demographic by age.
The other comment I’d make on this is that the gay marriage battle is a fight that most in the LGBT groups didn’t want to fight this soon – they knew that it would be an insanely tough fight and would rather have focused on things like employer and housing discrimination and wait 10 years to fight the marriage fight (because more of the idiots would have died off). But Mayor McDreamy, reeling from bad press from his fights, wanted to do something to get the everlasting love of the ghey voters for his reelection, and forced the issue in 2004 (and in my opinion, causing the defeat of Kerry in Ohio).
And sure, it’s hard to say “wait another 10 years for full marriage equality” but until Newsom forced their hands, that was what the leaders and strategists were saying in the gay civil rights movement. In 10 years the battle would have been in legislatures, not courts.
@Original Andrew: That works too. I’ll start a support group.
@SanFranLefty: Interesting to read that. I’m going to try to see if there isn’t some organization here that does outreach to fundie churches. I would gladly go talk to them. We have got to understand their point of view or we’ll get nowhere. Meanwhile, is ACLU the best way to go?
@rptrcub: I actually have been able to keep myself pretty much under control until that guy released the statement about treating each other with civility and respect. I had a little bit of a HULK SMASH! moment at the office yesterday.
I don’t have too much to add, but I am completely for going after the Mormon churches 501(c)3 status. Firebombing temples is a) just wrong and b) gets them too much sympathy for their freakish cult. In the wonderful world we live in, losing their tax exempt status is the thing that would pain them the most.
I am disturbed by the blaming of the black and latino communities for the passing of Prop 8. While I have no doubt better outreach could have been done, and that the campaign could have been run better. But to imply that gheyz have been completely supportive of the civil rights struggles of both communities and should therefore be given the same support in return is ludicrous. There is just as much racism is the GLBT community as there is homophobia in other communities, and we always need to be smart and vigilante about how to address this (BTW I am not really talking to anyone here – I think you guys all rock. But some of the things I have read elsewhere are distrurbing).
On one last note, I think that the word ‘marriage’ should be done away with for everyone and we should all -ghey or str8 – just have civil unions. I think so much of the issue has been that stupid word, and that more than anything it keeps leading to these setbacks and prevents us from getting what we want, which are the rights that come with this social contract. I could go on and on but I really need to get to work.
Hang in there boyz. We all still have each other, and no stupid Prop or fundie church can take that away.
Re: Outreach group
Here is an excellent one:
@Benedick: ACLU of Northern California, ACLU of Southern California, Equality California, National Center for Lesbian Rights, and Lambda Legal are the nonprofits working together on the legal challenge. Plus a couple of law firms.
@homofascist: Good points, my little homofascist…
@SanFranLefty: Going after their tax status was my very first thought. I understand the anger and the desire to protest outside their temples, but I fear it will increase sympathy for them and fear/hatred towards gay USAmericans. HF is right. LDS has more money than god — in my former job, I was amazed by the incredibly expensive digital infrastructure and digitization projects at UU, U State, and BYU. Go after the pocketbook. Hit them where it really hurts. The worst thing that could happen is any violence against them.
@homofascist: I couldn’t agree more about civil unions. I think it should be like France (Ok, I think most everything should be like France) where everyone has a civil ceremony and may then have a religious one if they so desire. It’s the whole “marriage” word that sets everyone off. It needs to be dropped from the civil laws and returned to its original position as a sacrament of the church.
TJ/ESPN reporter, former colleague of Mrs RML –
played hoops with The Eagle on Election Night.
@Mistress Cynica: I bet all that has to do with their baptize the dead project, and that somehow they believe that gay marriage would fuck up their review of birth, marriage and death records.
@redmanlaw: A big part of it does have to do with digitizing every newspaper and birth/death record they can get their hands on, which takes an unbelievable amount of money. Millions. My largest project? $25K.
@Mistress Cynica: My mom was a Mormon for a while; one of two brothers who went on missions still is (the rest of us are tolerant polytheistic theocracy-as-an-expression-of-tribal sovereignty pagans and nominal Catholics). She ran into a lot of family resistance when she tried to gather up existing family records (not much in the way of paper for us on either side pre-1930 or so) coz no one wanted to be part of the Mormon ancestral baptism thing. I personally don’t care. Whatever.
@Mistress Cynica: Oh definitely, everything should be just like France, everything. Really. Fucking everything. We should even speak English using french idioms and expressions, everything would be so much more dramatic.
@homofascist: Couldn’t agree more. One of the more unpleasant aspects of all this is the blaming of black people. It’s got to stop.
@Mistress Cynica: They are very successful at hiding their involvement. They can claim that there was no directive from them only a popular movement.
@Benedick: If they succeed in driving a wedge between the black democrats and the gay democrats and their supporter, they could sit back and watch us implode just as they’re doing right now.
@Mistress Cynica: @homofascist: I have had to pull myself away from some Web sites, Joe.My.God. being one of them. The WingNutDaily folks are monitoring the commenters and what some of them are saying can and is being used against us in their missives of “news stories.” The racism, besides the using of “thrown under the bus” phrase, is deep and thick. The Webmaster himself has had to comb through the eleventy zillion comments to weed out the worst offenders.
@Mistress Cynica: And all of this is also driving a wedge for LGBT Black and Latino people, who are already in between a rock and a hard place.
@Mistress Cynica: I don’t think that’s going to happen. Though I think things could get ugly. It seems that there is a real move afoot to get Sundance to move from Park City and to find other ways to punish Utah and the church of the LDS.
Perhaps a big new movie about the Mountain Meadows massacre and the involvement of Brigham Young in the greatest act of domestic terrorism till the bombing in OK City. I see George Clooney. I see Oscar.
@Mistress Cynica, Bene (as in “Good?”) dick, cub, HF: My illness benumbed mind tells me that there is a solution to this, and it probably lies off of the playing field set out by the Bad Guys.
/occupying a chair, not really capable of working
@rptrcub: Yes. My cousin is a black gay guy living in the closet, and he has HIV. Our nutty fundie relatives keep him from leading a full and authentic life. And the influence of his retired Army dad doesn’t help. He’s horribly depressed. I think I’ll give him a call.
@redmanlaw: I think it’s a delay. It will happen.
The name is from Shakespeare (forgive me, culture, heritage, besides which the son-of-a-bitch couldn’t half write) Beatrice says it in Much Ado “Was not Benedick the married man?” punning (actually quibbling) on the old name for a newly-married man: a benedict. I’m afraid this is turning into a hobby-horse.
@Benedick: It seems 1/3 of the direct descendants of John Smith are now resident here in NSW, Australia. Scary….
The LDS is really interested in them and want to bring them back to the LDS “Church”.
@CheapBoy: Like they know. They are Scientologists without starpower but with magic underwear. Their beliefs are so screwy not even Sarah Palin would be fooled. But that’s one of their strengths: the absolute batshit craziness of what they believe. It’s all or nothing. And if it’s all… it’s nothing. Young gay Mormon men are the most damaged that I know. And that’s going by only the ones who got out.
BTW. Did John Smith have any descendants? Wasn’t he killed first? I read all about it once and life is too short to read it again.
Mind you, Patrick Wilson in the magic underwear in the movie of Angels in America? I have been forced to look at worse things. Romney’s sons? Trick and Trug and Snapper and Butch and Flopsweat? In the undies? A movement was just born.
@Benedick: Can I just say that between your anger, your Mormon bashing, and your new identity, I am totally turned on by you today? I am going to have another dream where we are making out – it makes Stinque After Dark a whole new thing.
@JNOV: I just feel incredibly awful that since the exit polls were released about Prop 8, there is all sorts of incredibly ugly racism going on among gay men (though the lesbians seem strangely able to get along) in the blogosphere. Give him a hug for me.
@homofascist: CheapBoy’s suggestion of a special support group involving an activity of the HFA motto: less waterboarding, more blowjobs, may indeed be needed at a time like this.
@rptrcub: I’ve been thinking that you could use a nice massage and a good beej – you have been having a bad week. Just come to Chicago – I can whip you up a batch of bear soup in no time flat!
@homofascist: Awww, thanks. Just make sure you don’t throw Sully in that stew.
@rptrcub: I will. I love him dearly. He used to play with me when I was little, and he was always kind and loving. He has had a rough, rough life.
I wish the discussion could be focused on the role religion has played and less on the role of race.
@homofascist: This also makes me feel better: the RNC bought Todd Palin silk boxers:
On top of the $150,000 first outlined in Federal Election Commission filings, Palin spent “tens of thousands of dollars” on additional clothing, makeup and jewelry for herself and her family, including $40,000 in luxury goods for her husband, Todd, our colleague Michael Shear reports. The campaign was charged for silk boxer shorts, spray tanners and 13 suitcases to carry all the designer clothes, according to two GOP insiders.
Spray tanner? You’ve got to be kidding. How EEEEEEEEEEEELITIST!
@homofascist: I’m not surprised. Part of the reason I was masquerading as an effete Limey was so as not to overwhelm you all with my righteous rage. Which has been known to make my muscles ripple as I clench my unusually square jaw as fine beads of sweat drip from my nipples. Just sayin’.
@rptrcub: And hello?? I know you all thought oh it’s faggy ol’ Lyndon bein’ like faggy but did I not call this weeks ago? (Are there any pics of dude in silk boxers? Not that I care). All of my training told me there was something rotten in Denmark and it wasn’t just herring although it was fish.
@Benedick: I don’t remember it, but I guess I owe you something involving kneepads. Rest assured that I am frantically searching the Internets to see if we can get said photographs. Unfortunately all I can bring up are inferences of TB naked, and I really don’t want to click on those links.
@rptrcub: I meant the whole Caribou Barbie Image Makeover foolishness. I said at the time they had all been expensively styled. I know design when I see it. I don’t mean to imply you are in any way to blame. Though if you do have some kneepads handy…
@Benedick: I prefer my kneepads from Neiman Marcus.
Hey kids! Big fucking riots/protests going on down in the Castro!! I caught some of it when I popped out of the subway station. News updates and live footage here. I’m the tall woman in the pinstriped suit (no you can’t see me). I took some Live Team Stinque photos to send in tomorrow a.m. to the photo jam. I really need to get an iPhone, they’re so blurry, but I tried to capture the crowd with the backdrop of the Castro Theatre with the giant sign for the premiere of “Milk” in the background.
@Benedick: Princess SparklePony has been following the ultimate white-trashiness of the Palin family’s fake Louis Vuitton bags.
Hey kids, Talibunny with a shoutout to Stinquers, KO and Margaret Carlson says we’re ALL stinquers!
@nabisco: It’s time for a press release protesting Talibunny’s noxious attack on this web site and its denizens.
@SanFranLefty: I hope to see a UT boycott across the boards.
@FlyingChainSaw: And you should pen that press release replete with your flowery prose and diplomacy in all things Talibunny.
@SanFranLefty: there were big protests in West LA in front of the Mormon temple.
@nabisco: I don’t think she knows quite how stinquey I can be. But I’m not quite willing to go there. Any hets here who want to give her a chance to smell the glove, such as?
@Dodgerblue: Anyone who has been down teh 5 in recent years can see the Cinderella Castle the Morons have built in La Jolla. Right now I’d like to take a tag team up there and decorate the thrusting white spires with atheist slogans painted in gay glitter.
@Dodgerblue: Did the LAPD beat people again?
@SanFranLefty: Rock on. Any disorder? Violence? Just curious. Don’t want to foment it but I just wonder.
Token Yes on 8 dude in KPIX vid: Anti-religious bigotry? After what you motherfuckers did to us for years? Pot, meet kettle.
@Pedonator: Thrusting white spires? Dude, that’s totally hot.
@Pedonator: I remember when they were building that abomination.
@rptrcub: Dude, it totally looks like Cinderella’s Castle from the freeway. I’m sure it’s caused more than a few fender-benders.
@JNOV: Yeah, for a few weeks after it was done they let the curious public in for tours. Before they consecrated it with the blood of inferiors. Unfortunately I missed it. After that I hear you can only get in with special magic underwear, no plebeian Moronis (or anyone else) allowed, at least not past the pearl-necklace gates beyond which OVNIs hover, waiting for their human feedstock.
Mormons are bad news in so many ways. Don’t feel bad, my gay brothers and sisters, that they discriminate against you, they discriminate against EVERYONE who is not one of them. Once they get into any organization, government or a corporation, they start the nepotism, its like a prison gang. Intolerance is one of their credos, favoring fellow mormons is expected. Oh, its illegal discrimination, of course, but hell, their allegiance is not to country or law, its to their religion.
Some religions can exist without problems in a democratic society committed to religious freedom and opposed to bigotry. Mormons, not so much. Fundie christians, likewise, not so much. There’s a fundamental, deep conflict between their ultimate loyalties and beliefs and the commitment to religious freedom and the separation of church and state.
@Pedonator: Ha ha! Yeah, and the temple ceremonies they hold there, esp the baptisms for the dead, are kind of freaky. I used to work across the street from the LA temple. It’s one major phallic symbol. I used to see school kids running across the law being chased by temple workers in golf carts.
I used to see school kids running across the law being chased by temple workers in golf carts.
I want video of that. To show to my mildly Xtian relatives at Xmas.
Ya know, the two groups I despise most in the world are anti-semites, and gay-haters. Garden variety racists, their hate is wrong, but at least its logical within their false premises, that some people are superior to others. They are wrong, of course, but accepting their premise, it at least is logical.
But anti-semites and gay-haters are operating on a different level. Quite frankly, anti-semites hate jews because they know, somewhere, deep inside, that the jews are superior to them. The jews have survived and kept their identity and culture as despised aliens for 2000 years, and despite it all, succeed and prosper out of proportion to their numbers. Anti-semitism is the hatred of the loser for the winner, simple evil resentment.
Gay hatred is just as bad. Its based, I think, 100%, on mental illness, on our society’s christian-based patholigical views on sex and gender. Its an evil combination of religious intolerance and sexual perversion, its a fucking sickness, in my mind, to even fucking give a shit about it.
We will get over it, though. This society will get over it, and I think the political winds that force things like this election and prop 8 are not indicative of the prevalent tolerance of most people in our society right now, its the fucking republicans and their deliberate decision to elevate the issue to the forefront of their “culture war” strategy to energize their base and cleave the democratic coalition, because it is true that generally black culture is less tolerant. But its not going to make blacks start voting republican, and its only Cali with its unique referendum rules that allows something like this.
Fuck them. Get married. Fuck them, the fucking fuckers. God I hate them so much, for hating you with no sane reason.
@Promnight: These people aren’t racists, anti-Semites or homophobes because they think one group is superior to another. Their hatred stems from them seeing people in these groups as other, as fundamentally different from them, and I don’t think the racists should get some sort of special treatment or understanding because their hatred is logical. It is illogical.
I am a mixed-race left-handed person. I have more in common biologically with a Latino left-handed person than I do with another person with my same racial heritage, a racial heritage which includes an Irish grandmother, a Jewish great grandmother, a Welsh great-great grandmother, a French great…great grandfather, two Native American great-great grandmothers and some black folk thrown in for good measure.
Racists, anti-Semites and homophobes are all cut from the same cloth. If you’re different from them you are to be reviled and feared. They operate from the starting point of ignorance fomented by the hate of like-minded individuals. Don’t try to rationalize their bigotry.
@Promnight: Yeah, unfortunately the Mormons run the U.S. Air Force and the Boy Scouts.
It’s rather unfortunate.
@Pedonator: I wish I had it on tape. Little kids running with joy and abandon across the biggest lawn in LA.
@SanFranLefty: Yeah but the jews got the navy.
@SanFranLefty: They have their own separate scouting group, and while they let non-Mormons in their troops, the non-Mormons let alone atheists have a tough row to hoe. They also have something similar to the Girls Scouts for Mormon girls. Life in the Morridor (Idaho, Utah and Arizona) is rough for non-Mormons, although Salt Lake City has a growing non-Mormon population.
And they used to torture gay Mormons at BYU — they put electrodes on their genitals and showed them gay porn and shocked the shit out of them. It was called the Evergreen project, and countless men were abused under the guise of treating them. I even know an ex-Mormon who was talked into marrying a gay Mormon so that he could achieve exaltation. And one of the reasons the ERA failed was due to the Mormon church.
I thought the Air Force Academy was chock full of fundies.
Good lord. Who knew my innocent little Rachel Maddow post would lead to such flirtation and deep conversation? Of course the one into which I put the least amount of work possible.
@JNOV: I must agree. All hatred of entire groups stems from a need to have an ‘other’ to be better than. And to have power over. Its all about power. I have been slumming it over on Michelle Malkin (I am soooooooo sorry Stinquey ladies, you knows I love you to death, but that woman is the most miserable cunt to walk the Earth) and this whole Obama presidency has really brought out the ‘reverse racists’, who drive me absolutely fucking bonkers. Their lack of mental fortitude is stunning.
@homofascist: And the closer the ‘other’ is to the dominant group the more the dominant group must demonize them. Since homo-sex men and women ARE the dominant group – apart from one small detail – we must be cast out so they can remain pure. I think we’re most like the Jews because we can ‘pass’ easily. Which both confuses and terrifies them. We are everywhere.
reading this thread makes me think, “what are we meercats?”
the downfall of the human race will be caused by fear of ‘other’.
it’s in our DNA as a survival mechanism that was last useful during the neanderthal period, and it’s time we rise above it…if it’s not too late.
evidence of reptillian brain stems are everywhere.
yes lyndick, we are everywhere. my issue is too many people not being loud and proud. gays need to be out and jews have to stop changing their names, and let the world know what we contribute to society, and what strong and colorful threads we are in the fabric of our culture.
Maybe some of these anti-gay “straight” dudes should all go ahead and blow a dude and get it over with. Yes, the closer to oneself the other is, the more one hates the other.
@rptrcub: No disorder or violence, just lots of sad pandas, who didn’t react in a bad way to two taunting Yes on 8 preachers from Prunedale (Greater Nowhereville).
@SanFranLefty: Someone graffitied up a Mormon chapel with no on 8 graf. I’m not too upset about the vandalism.
@Benedick: You mean you aren’t an effete limey? Damn, and I was in love with your character.
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