Let Us Begin.

The other side took the fight to us, and we never took the fight to the other side, except coyly and obliquely. That’s not a mistake we should make the next time. “Honorable campaigns” are for losers. [Kathryn Jean Lopez, 10:09 p.m.]

What freaks me out about this election is how oblivious to facts people have been. Everything about Obama’s judgment and radicalism — whether Sean Hannity or Stanley Kurtz or Andy McCarthy etc. is telling you about it — was essentially deemed irrelevant (including largely by the McCain campaign, save for Palin eventually talking about Ayers). [Kathryn Jean Lopez, 10:38 p.m.]

It is of course a great thing that we are (it seems pretty certain) electing a black President. It’s just a crying shame it had to be this shallow, empty man, who has never shown a flicker of interest in wealth creation, whose head is stuffed with all the vapid nostrums of 1980s student leftism, and who seems — putting the most charitable construction on it — not to mind the brazenly thuggish tactics of his supporters. [John Derbyshire, 11:03 p.m.]

Now that McCain has lost, and Sarah Palin has time to reintroduce herself down the road, the anti-Palin conservatives will almost surely look foolish in retrospect. [Jonah Goldberg, 11:42 p.m.]

Despite the hysteria, McCain deserves recognition for running what history should rightly show was a very honorable campaign. [Mark Hemingway, 11:56 p.m.]

I can wrap my head around Obama as President just fine. What will be intolerable is the insane preening from his supporters. [Mark Hemingway, 12:02 a.m.]

I remember reading all of Mark S.’s posts about fraudulent fundraising, ACORN, etc. That hasn’t changed with the Obama victory, has it? [Mark R. Levin, 12:08 a.m.]

All right, I’m sour. The most liberal member of the U.S. Senate! And that shakedown-artist of a wife, with the permanent frown! And Joe Biden! [John Derbyshire, 1 a.m.]

The important thing to remember is we are the last best hope and if we all stand for what we believe in and work hard, we won’t become a European satellite. [Kathryn Jean Lopez, 1:20 a.m.]

The Corner [NRO]

Dear Lord,
Please bless KLo with the gift of immaculate conception, and make it ectopic.


Lots of epic stupid in the Senate races, too.

Norm Coleman is looking at a senate investigation as well as Ted.

Hee hee John D. Can’t take the twat out of the twatwaffle.

@redmanlaw: Yes, but it’s still the 13th century over at The Corner. They have been utterly repudiated and don’t know it.

When John Derbyshire speaks of “wealth creation,” he clearly means “filthy lucre” only. I wish I hadn’t read any of his worthless opinions. His unfortunate acquaintances don’t have to look far to find the epitome of “shallow” and “empty.” Ugh!

@redmanlaw: Just as I felt bad this morning about Prop 8 (I’m sorry y’all if I’m obsessed with what Ralph Nader called “gonadal politics” but this is important to me), I realized this: some of the conservative twits on SCOTUS will either die (most likely) or retire during President Black Eagle’s first term.

That is where the gay marriage battle will be won; not among the masses of people. Anti-democratic? Sure. But were civil rights ever truly won or determined by popular vote?

I has some Hope again.

President Obama (woohoo!) will be nowhere near as nasty to these ignorant pigfucking biblethumping troglodytes as I would.

@rptrcub: What happened with prop 8? BTW, isn’t one of the constitutional functions of the courts to protact a minority from majority opinion?

I was away from my desk last night and couldn’t log in on my laptop which is why I wasn’t around during that wonderful win. OK, so I predicted PG’s concession for 11:15. Did I win or what? He came on here at 11:17. Woo hoo.

@Lyndon LaDouche: Currently the theory (not mine) is that a large minority turnout for Obama meant a catch-22 of the Yes side winning. I, however, believe it was all those Yes commercials from the Mormons and their magic underpants.

Sadly, some of my fellow gays are blowing their gaskets and are showing very ugly ugly signs of racism, even though Obama himself repudiated Prop 8.

@Lyndon LaDouche: Also, 5% uptick in the GOP Ghey vote in 08 compared to 04. OMFG.

@Dodgerblue: And that’s the danger – this is precisely the time to finish off the GOP. Instead it sounds like those with the power to do so will join hands with the snake-handlers and sing happy songs.

Well they don’t have a soul to search so what else are they gonna do?


Actually it would be a serious mistake to write them off at this point, no matter how stupid and crazy they are.

*shakes cobwebs out of head*

I’m not ready to engage with these dolts yet. Here, have a look at the dailies.

@rptrcub: Personally, I thought that the anti-prop 8 ads were so ridiculously bad they helped us lose – if indeed we have. Pretty rich white people and their pretty rich white problems. Instead of framing the issue as being one of civil rights. The stealth campaign waged by the Mormons should have been an absolute gift to our side. What did they do with it? Pretty white people having their underwear drawer violated. Ridiculous.

It’s dispiriting that on a day we’ve seen such a breakthrough that people who’ve been discriminated against don’t seem to make the connection with the lives of others.

@rptrcub: I think the driving force behind Log Cabinism is the desire to feel ‘normal’. We want rights: they want the issue to go away so they don’t have to embarrass their mothers.

@Original Andrew: The hard right will become more dangerous than ever now. They’re not finished off and won’t go quietly. But Hopey has shown us how to deal with them.

BTW. We watched the returns come in on MSNBC which seemed to be having a festival of hideous clothes. The men were all wearing terrible stripey jackets. There were 2 and 3 shots that made it hard to look at the screen. R Maddows was also sporting a hideous jacket. And then it was all topped off by the entirely ugly frock thing in which the usually impeccably dressed 1st Lady was attired. She looked like she’d been buying paint at Home Depot and the can spilled on her. Regrettable. However, our new president’s speech was inspiring. Too bad about the inclusion stuff being still a fantasy.

@Lyndon LaDouche: I do believe history is on our side. And history will not be kind to those who opposed the freedom to marry. Everyone: get your Scalia and Thomas voodoo dolls out NOW.

@Lyndon LaDouche:

I’m sorry this happened. There’s a big Moran, er, Mormon temple near where I live. If they don’t have any security cams, I’ll leave them a big bag of flaming dog shit on their doorstep.

@blogenfreude: A friend of mine once told me a lesson he had learned working in the oil fields near Bakersfield: if you get a man down, stomp him.

@Lyndon LaDouche: Those jackets were hideous. We were sort of obsessing about them – they were approaching zoot suit levels of tacky.

Still, I would rather look at those jackets for eternity than watch one second of Bill Bennett on CNN.

Ya know what? Fuck that shit! I love you nojo but I’m not reading that crap today.

I woke up this morning to a beautiful clear blue sky. The people on my block were smiling as the furbaby and I walked past. The normally reserved barista at Starbucks greeted me with a big grin and apologized for the lack of NYT (which sold out quickly this morning he said) but told me what the cover looked like.

People were smiling and saying good morning to each other instead of ignoring one another. I want this feeling to last a little longer.

What happened to Bill after 11pm? I come back from the Daily Show and no Bill to point and laugh at. Did he vomit in rage and left the set when Pres Hopey won?

Breaking: ABC says Obama has offered Rahm Emanuel the Chief of Staff job. Note to pigfuckers: Rahm is Jewish. Elections matter.

You know what, you fucktards? WE WON. YOU LOST.



Oh, and Mark Hemingway? Insane preening? WE LEARNED FROM THE BEST. Go live with all the other wingnuts in California who voted from Prop Motherfucking 8 and talk to me about moralistic fucking preening.

Fuck all these douchebags.

@ManchuCandidate: I was wondering that too. I think he needed to go off in the corner and cry and comfort himself with child pornography.

@Dodgerblue: Ugh. I don’t know about this. He is Smarmy McSmarm. Is this is truly the first appointment, it doesn’t fill me with teh Hope. Although, he does get things done. I guess I don’t need to like him as long as he is effective. Right?

@homofascist: that’s my view. We aren’t marrying him. He’s the consigliere: get the job done, throw the bodies in Lake Michigan.

My favorite radio station in the world, KFOG, is playing Bruce Springsteen’s The Rising right now at my request (among many I’m sure) – they’ve been play post-election celebration songs all morning.

So sad about Prop. 8. I’ll write more in a bit about it, still trying to get through last night’s threads.

I’m crying again listening to the song. OMG, I still can’t believe it’s real. Thinking of John Lewis. And the 109 year old daughter of slaves in Texas who lived long enough to vote for Obama.

@SanFranLefty: McCain’s remark last night about Obama’s grandmother showed more class than I thought he had in him.

Robert D. NOVAK, Chicago Sun-Times, “NO REALIGNMENT | No mandate for Obama, no lopsided Congress”: “The national election Tuesday was not only historic for the election of the first African-American president in the nation’s history but also for how little the avalanche of Democratic votes changed the political alignment in Congress. The first Democratic Electoral College landslide in decades did not result in a tight race for control of Congress. When Franklin D. Roosevelt won his second term for president in 1936, the defeated Republican candidate, Gov. Alf Landon of Kansas, won only two states, Maine and Vermont, and Democrats controlled both houses of Congress by wide margins. But Obama’s win was nothing like that. He may have opened the door to enactment of the long-deferred liberal agenda, but he neither received a broad mandate from the public nor the needed large congressional majorities. … Republicans, though discouraged by the election’s outcome, believe Obama will be hard-pressed not so much to enact his agenda but to keep his popular majority, which he considers centrist, as he moves to enact ultra-liberal legislation, particularly the demands of organized labor.”

WTF??? Bobby, shouldn’t you be in jail?

I made a big mistake last night: I stayed home. I should have gone out and found a crowd of happy revellers. I thought that, several times during the night, but I didn’t know where to go, and I didn’t want to get there on any of my exclusively two-wheeled vehicles through the crowd of drunk drivers I expected to be thronging the roads like mayflies.

I’m happy Obama won, no question. But I’m not ecstatic. I’m not thrilled beyond belief. He’s got a huge job ahead of him. He’s now facing 4+ long years of assassination attempts and hate from the fringe (but one fringe bullet cancels 99.9% adulation). He’s got two wars, an economy so bad the Great Depression is being looked back on as a kind of “how do we do this right” golden age, and a legacy of bad feelings from a huge majority of world nations.

Anyway, I should have gone and found a crowd to celebrate with last night. Maybe I wouldn’t be feeling so pessimistic.

@RomeGirl: No, Conrad Black is the one in jail. Although Bob Novak did run over the pedestrian with his Corvette. I think they gave him a pass because of the brain cancer (I actually thought he had retired).

I wouldn’t get worked up about it. Novakula is watching his Con fantasy world collapse all around him and there is nothing he can do except write a column that will be widely ignored.

We are sitting in the remains of his legacy plus that whole traitor thing wrapped around his chicken neck.

New Mexico GOP Utterly Destroyed

“It is hard to slip into hyperbole to describe the devastation wreaked on the NM GOP by this election. What was especially frightening were the overwhelming margins of the Dem victories. That is going to make it that much tougher to come back and reclaim the lost congressional and legislative seats in two years. The party will need new faces, new leadership and new ideas.

“We got an old fashioned ass-whupping” said one state GOP leader.

“The champagne poured at the ABQ Convention Center where the Dems rejoiced, but the liquor turned to embalming fluid at the mournful gathering of R’s.

“landslide . . . jaw dropping . . . what was supposed to have been a cliff hanger turned into a rout (when) a former one term ABQ city councilor finally ended the GOP’s 40 year old stranglehold on the (Albuquerque-area congressional) seat. . . ” from joemonahan.com


Our firm took a bit of a risk earlier this year when I persuaded my partners to let the then-insurgent Obama campaign have some space in our building for the New Mexico caucuses. Had Hillary won last night, we could have felt some retaliation had we not ponied up big time to her campaign to make up for the earlier transgression. Sure was fun to have them here. Ultimately, they had three offices here in Santa Fe, and one in every county seat and decent sized town in the state. What an organization.

@Dodgerblue: Emanuel apparently hasn’t accepted the offer, and Daeschle is the other possibility. Plus, Powell at Education, keep Gates on for stability, the Kansas gov as AG, Holbooke at State, but a variety of ex-Clintonistas bandied about including Summers at Treasury.

Anyone heard from Howard Dean yet? Dude deserves mad props…

@homofascist: He probably bet against McCain and was off to collect his gambling winnings.

One bright spot on the California ballot initiative front: Prop 2 has been called a Yes. Furbabies in CAFOs will at least get to stretch their legs once in a while.

@nabisco: Thank so much for that link. I teared up again at the very first one, from the Aniston, Ala. paper: “IN OUR LIFETIME.”

@Pedonator: Yes. People in my great state care more about chickens than they do about same-sex people who love each other.

@Lyndon LaDouche: @rptrcub: @Pedonator: @homofascist: Fashion report for 2008, boys: Gay is the new black. Congrats on being the oppressed minority. Bigots gotta have someone to hate.

@Dodgerblue: Just keeping on the sunny side…local public radio on the way to work said it’s the mail-in ballots that still need counting (mine among them!), so I cling to a sliver of hope on the 8 front.

And rptrcub makes a great point about civil rights never being won by popular vote. I’m sure the Mormons already have Connecticut in the crosshairs. I’m going to order my Thomas and Scalia voodoo dolls post haste.

@Pedonator: There was a guy on the local public radio station this morning who called in to say that if civil rights for African-Americans had been left to popular vote, they probably wouldn’t have happened.

@Mistress Cynica: We gheys are tough. We have had sand kicked in our face and yet we still build our own families and persevere and make this country a better place. I ain’t a’scared of shoving my high heel up the collective asses of rightwing bigots (although at the same time, I am not going to be moving to Oklahoma anytime soon).

The SF proposition to rename the sewage plant after Shrub failed. (The Democratic party officially opposed it).

First snowfall in Santa Fe today. Local only, would not have significantly affected voter turnout had it it yesterday, might have chased sign wavers indoors.

@homofascist: I think the high heel video is up at fleshbot today.

@SanFranLefty: I was torn about that issue. It was a good joke, but not entirely on the mark I think. A sewage treatment plant is for cleaning shit up, and so not really an appropriate memorial.

Holla, Stinques! Sorry my reports from Grant Park were so scattered and brief–too many cellphones simultaneously in use in a small area=network lockdown. But it was pretty cool to be there. The best part was entering the field to see an unending mass of people stretching on and on toward a stage and media pavilion far, far off in the distance. Unfortunately, no chance of an actual live sighting of the Unicorn from that distance, but the happy vibe and cheers as CNN on the huge screen brought in results made up for it….almost.

The strange thing was that it was a surprisingly calm atmosphere and actually kind of quiet for an event of that magnitude. Loud cheers went up for the major events, of course, like the election being called or when Obama first walked out onstage, but it quieted down fairly quickly and stayed that way for long stretches in between. Part of it I’m sure can be attributed to the fact that the election results weren’t a huge surprise and that the event itself was very low-key: no celebrities, no fireworks, just a prayer, the anthem, a beautiful, dignified speech, and that was it. It was sweet and I’m glad I was there, but in all honestly it wasn’t nearly as overwhelming as I thought it would be. But maybe I’m just a cold bitch, I don’t know.

The one thing I absolutely MUST snark about here with you beloved people was the awful, awful performance of the national anthem we had to endure. I was praying national teevee hadn’t cut to Chicago yet and would be spared, but I heard a snippit of it on NPR this morning, so I suspect that wasn’t the case. The stupid woman (apparently some contemporary Christian singer who’s won a few Dove Awards) didn’t know the lyrics and wandered around before settling on a key in what was unfortunately an a capella rendition. As my friend rightly pointed out afterward, it was the biggest mistake Obama has made in two years of campaigning!

@Pedonator: @Mistress Cynica: @SanFranLefty: @ManchuCandidate: I bring us some Harvey Milk:

I know that you cannot live on hope alone, but without it, life is not worth living. And You… … Gotta give em hope.

@homofascist: @Dodgerblue: the prejudice against gays drives me as insane as the jew haters. (i have a nephew who is biracial, jewish and gay. oy)
what have we done?
contribute mightily to the betterment of the world since the beginning of time? want peace and harmony and love and friendship and jobs and families and helping each other and rising to the highest levels of business and government, against all odds. (the black/biracial thing has an entirely different history and can’t be compared as easily as gays and jews).
how amazingly stupid it seems to me, that the incalcuable contributions these two oppressed groups have made, goes over the heads of the very people benefitting. denied equal rights! besides outrageous, it’s fucking unconstitutional godammit!
i’ve been crying tears of joy for barry all day, but i’m a little pissed about the prop too cubbie.
did we get the constitution back yesterday too? this will ultimately be decided by a court, having a modicum of mental acuity above half the usamerican poulation, such as. after barry’s appoinments, it will happen.

O/T don’t forget! sarah silverman is marrying her dog tonight!

@flippin eck: The recent fashion among black singers, now widely imitated by white as is everything else, is to improvise around a tune so much that they never sing the actual notes. It’s supposed to denote emotion (as it does in baroque music, Handel uses it to stunning effect in The Messiah) and authenticity. It is mostly a pain in the ass. Luckily, I didn’t have to endure it last night. MSNBC cut away just as she heaved her way to the mic and began to howl. I was also not too taken with the reverend making some sort of intro. The God aspect of Obama is what I find most unsettling: I find it hard to understand how such an intelligent man could believe such shite.

@flippin eck: MSNBC cut away from her after the first chord. When she walked out, I thought at first it was Queen Latifah, which would have been unbelievably cool.

Do the state amendments mean that they don’t have to honor the laws of foreign countries? Since we got married in Canada our marriage is legal. Isn’t there some sort of reciprocity? Or can the states pick and choose?

Even though I’ve lived here a long time I still cannot get my head around the idea of federalism. Like most Limeys (rome girl, back me up her) I’m inclined to think the whole matter is a bit of a joke. Like driving on the wrong side of the road or going to Barbra Streisand concerts.

@flippin eck: I sent a few bucks to the DNC this week in hopes of getting picked to go to Chicago, but I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed being at home with my little family with the fire going, flippin channels on the dish, two laptops running, drinks flowing, backyard fireworks, fresh hot popcorn and pulling my 6th grader son out of bed to see the speech. (Mrs RML was not down with Michelle’s dress.)

Fell asleep in the living room daddy chair, got up at 4:30 am. Mrs RML started watching Morning Joe at 5 am and I went driving around my part of town looking for an Obama sign around six . Finally found one near our church about five miles from the house.

My letter to the local Obama organizer:

Dear Gaye:

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your service to your country for your commitment and effort on behalf of our President-elect.

Your service in remaking the face of the Democratic Party in New Mexico is also invaluable. Back in 2001-2002 when I served as vice chair under Diane Denish and acting chair, we saw the beginnings of a “progressive” movement but it had no cause or candidate to form around until Howard Dean came along and brought some new faces and passion to the party. Your work in organizing on behalf of Barack Obama has helped create really what is a nationwide, parallel Democratic Party made up of the millions of people who, although they were inspired by Sen. Obama, had never become involved in the process until they were encouraged by people like you who early on saw the fire and potential of the Senator and believed in him. A transformed and energized party that understands the reality of the situation, the need to give of one’s self and sacrifice if need be is what we need to face the challenges ahead.

As you ease back into private life, you can do so with the knowledge that you helped change the world yesterday. Every Democrat on the ticket who blew out a Republican opponent in northern New Mexico owes you, the Obama Nation, and the President-elect a deep debt of gratitude, as do I. Thank you for your service and for helping make a better world possible for us all.


@Lyndon LaDouche: I don’t see it as a reflection of what he believes so much as his understanding of what people expect, and what is due to a previous generation. It would be hard to overstate the role of the black churches in the civil rights movement (Rev. MLK, Rev. J. Jackson, etc. etc.)–not giving them props in some way would, I think, be regarded by many as disrespectful and ungrateful.

@Pedonator: It was a good joke, but it was also playing into the hands of the SF-haters. That’s why the Dem Party here opposed it.

The SF proposition that would have decriminalized prostitution, pandering, and pimping also failed, thankfully. We have a real problem here with women being trafficked here from overseas and elsewhere in the U.S. to SF since the prostitutes normally don’t get prosecuted anyway, and the proposition (funded by the sex clubs here) would have made the situation a lot worse.

@flippin eck: How cool! Only heard that one note out of the singer. But what was going on with Michelle’s dress? She was so good all campaign and then she wore that fashion abortion. The theory of the gheyz and girlz at my party was that it was some sort of concillatory gesture to red states (red and black swirled together) but I thought it was a horrible frock that made her look pregnant.

@Lyndon LaDouche: I was born here, and I still don’t understand how the rights get divvied up between the states and federal level. But my understanding is, when it comes to marriage, the states pick and choose.

@flippin eck: It’s good to know a Stinquer was there as history was being made.

@baked: I don’t have a personal stake in combating any of the name-brand prejudices of the late 20th century — no relatives oppressed, no family dramas, my working mother (I guess I was a latchkey kid, but the term wasn’t around yet) encountered no obstacles.

And yet I have a fundamental repugnance to the very notion of putting rights up to a vote — we either are all equal under the law, or we aren’t. Either the Declaration of Independence is a statement of enduring ideals, or it’s a crumbling piece of paper.

That’s my fundamentalism.

@Dodgerblue: That was a nice touch. It was such a gracious speech and nice to see finally but I kept wondering where was this guy the past couple of months? Were they holding him hostage in some Alaskan backwater so Talibunny could engage in her reign of terror?

@Mistress Cynica: I’m sure you’re right, I’m sure he also has a real personal faith. I just find it hard to understand. But that’s because I have no faith and simply don’t get how anyone can believe that stuff. That’s my personal prejudice. But that aspect of him makes me just a little cringey. I don’t, however, think it’s hypocrisy, which I did with Bush.

@SanFranLefty: She’s usually so well turned out. And their children were gorgeous. There must be a story behind it, she was wearing it because it represented something. Beyond the paint dept at Home Depot, that is.

I was so touched by the shots of Jesse Jackson weeping and only just managing not to sob.

@redmanlaw: Once again, RML shows us all how to take the high road.

@Lyndon LaDouche: @Mistress Cynica: Here’s a far-off video of the excreble performance. Don’t give up too soon, because then you’ll miss the beauty of the final note. By the way, the person who took the video had a better vantage point than I did!

@SFL: It was hard to make out even on the jumbotron, but from what I could see of it, it did look disturbingly like a hemmorage. But I have no doubt that she’ll be turned out so well as First Lady that she’ll give Jackie a run for the money.

@Jamie Sommers: You and me both. And, I suspect, the rest of America. He wasn’t twitching or grimacing or going Aaak! or anything. He looked like a perfectly reasonable human being. He even made sense (apart from the stuff about Caribou Barbie).

@flippin eck: I’m touched by your desire to share but I’ve heard enough bad singing in my day.

@Pedonator: The US Constitution has a “full faith and credit” clause that says that the states have to honor each others laws, court judgments etc. Except — and you knew this was coming — that a number of exceptions have been carved out by the courts, including when something one state does offends the public policy of another.

@Lyndon LaDouche: Re your query, Do the state amendments mean that they don’t have to honor the laws of foreign countries? Since we got married in Canada our marriage is legal. Isn’t there some sort of reciprocity? Or can the states pick and choose?

The state amendments don’t have to deal with that, thanks to a horrifying piece of federal legislation signed into law by none other than William Jefferson Clinton, the so-called Defense of Marriage Act (a.k.a. DOMA in civil rights circle). To explain without getting too boring here: the U.S. Constitution has this thing called the “full faith and credit” clause (Art. IV, Sect. 1) that basically says that states have to honor state actions, records, and judicial rulings entered into in other states. Exact wording: “Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State…”

So per the full faith and credit clause, a gay marriage legally entered into in California should be recognized and honored in another state (let’s say Arizona) the same way that a California judicial order that someone pay child support is enforceable in a Arizona court if the person getting the money moved to Arizona. Or more on point, the gay marriage should be recognized the same way as if a heterosexual marriage entered into in California would be recognized in Arizona if the married couple were to move to Arizona, or were from Phoenix and came to LA to get married and came home.

DOMA said that even though we have this long-standing bedrock principle under full faith and credit, that in the limited situation of gay marriage, states could refuse to recognize a gay marriage that was legally entered into in another state. Around 30 states now have their own laws saying they won’t recognize a gay marriage legally entered into in another state. (This was the state law at issue in California when our Supreme Court ruled that such a law was unconstitutional under our federal and state constitutions).

Your Governor Patterson a few months ago announced that the State of New York would recognize gay marriages that were legally entered into in other states or countries – in other words, marriages such as yours. But if you’re on the road staging shows in one of those 30-odd states, you and Mr. LLD are no longer considered married.

Does this make sense?

/end ConLaw lecture

@Dodgerblue: But the public policy exception to the FFC clause has always been pretty narrowly interpreted, and as only applicable to state laws and not state judgments. Right?

@Dodgerblue: @SanFranLefty: So when do y’all foresee this question come before SCOTUS? Hopefully after we’re successful with our Scalia and Thomas voodoo dolls?


So what happens next on this? We have to just be second-class citizens, right? California Gay Marriage is a cooked goose, legally speaking?

Can we re-amend the constitution?

Also, isn’t there some protection from minorities somewhere? I mean, what if California passed a proposition to make marriage to african-americans illegal? Would there be no redress in that case?

You must have heard those questions about 1000 times in the past few months, but I’m dying to know….

@Tommmcatt Yet Again, @rptrcub, @Dodgerblue: Dodger, please chime in here and help me if you want. I’ve got a meeting at noon so this will be fast.

Depends what court the challenge to Prop. 8 is filed in. Will most likely go back up to the state supreme court, since there’s claims based upon the state constitution that could be raised. It’ll take a few years.

@Tommmcatt Yet Again:
I mean, what if California passed a proposition to make marriage to african-americans illegal? Would there be no redress in that case?
Yes, we could do that proposition. That’s what I was telling black and brown people in Oakland yesterday.
But there is redress. Because the state Supreme Court ruled that restricting the rights of gays requires strict scrutiny akin to restricting the rights of racial minorities.

Okay, gotta go for a while.

@Tommmcatt Yet Again: I don’t know my Cali ConLaw, but the point of the Sam Jackson ad was that California did restrict “interracial” marriages in the uncomfortably recent past.

To my taste — but I don’t count, since my vote was never in question — that was the best ad of the bunch, and I wish it had come out (er…) much earlier. The worst ad by far was the Mac parody, which made no sense at all.

@rptrcub: Off-topic (or off the topic that’s off-topic of whatever this thread is actually about), but there’s still a tiny ray of hope in Georgia.

WSJ factoid: “Indications from early voting and lengthy lines at the polls point to the biggest voter turnout since women got the vote in 1920.”


Beyond the electoral landslide, I’ve been looking for indications of decisiveness — that Obama didn’t win by default, he didn’t win because his opponents split their vote (i.e., Clinton), that he won despite the nastiest campaign in living memory.

I’ve been looking, in short, for a significant popular-vote majority amidst a high turnout. And that’s it.

@mellbell: I agree, but I also have a worry in the back of my mind that angry Adkisson Brigade stupid redneck white male types will take their hatred of Obama out on Jim Martin. Pumping up turn out will be much, much harder for the Dec. 2 runoff.

The bastards we’re facing here, from historically racist Forsyth County, now an Atlanta exurb:
“I fought for America. I believe in the Stars and Bars. He doesn’t like the Stars and Bars.”

The douche probably meant “stars and stripes,” but there is a subconscious meaning — Stars and Bars refers to the flag of the Confederacy, and not the battle flag with the X, necessarily, but the original one from which Georgia has its current state flag.

Lawsuit — or writ petition for you lawyerly folks — already filed against Prop 8 today.

Wow. The Day After. Cobwebs clearing, lack of good sleep is not. Mexican food for lunch helped. My billing for November will no doubt shoot up. ESPN radio had an item on what Eagle’s election will mean in the push for a national college football championship playoff .

I totally enjoyed spending this campaign season with you all. The fun is just beginning, however. We may have another high profile departure to the new Administration if Sen Jeff (think “Jimmy Stewart”) Bingaman goes to Energy. Richardson’s zipper issue is coming up again. Still, machinations and scenarios involving gubernatorial succession and replacement of the lt. governor are all over Santa Fe today. Our waiter/spy let us in on what the Republicans who were at Tia Sophia’s earlier were thinking. (Way insider-y, but let’s just say that they are not a reality based community).

@redmanlaw: So you think Richardson won’t get the nod for Secretary of State?

Just want to add that I love today’s poll. Made me lol.

@Pedonator: Hmmm…

“According to the California Constitution, such radical changes to the organizing principles of state government cannot be made by simple majority vote through the initiative process, but instead must, at a minimum, go through the state legislature first.”

Well, good luck to them. Can Sam Jackson argue their case?

@Pedonator: “I’ve had it with these motherfucking initiatives in this motherfucking constitution!”

@nojo: For realz. Can we have an initiative to ban the initiative process?

@Jamie Sommers: My antennae have picked up some local intel that he’s going to DC, but not as Secretary of State. I could see him as a dep sec for Latin America, while someone who knows someone said it might be an ambassadorship someplace.

ADD: Remember, remember it’s the 5th of November.

Not to further harsh everyone’s mellow, but Arkansas voters passed a ballot measure prohibiting unmarried straight or gay couples from being foster parents or adoptive parents. Family values, y’all.

@redmanlaw: Gunpowder, treason and plot!

@SanFranLefty: Thanks for all the work for defeating prop 8 and for the legal explanations to those of us less connected to reality. But. But. My marriage took place in Canada. Doesn’t the US have to honor Canadian laws? Why would DOMA come into it?

@Lyndon LaDouche: Because, family law traditionally is a state statute issue in the U.S., not a federal statute issue. (Yet another reason why getting involved with passing something like DOMA was unusual). So it’s up to your state, subject to the “public policy” exceptions – for example, if you’re from a country that allows you to legally marry four people or a 9-year-old, your state wouldn’t recognize it. NY will recognize legally sanctioned gay marriages, so they should recognize marriages from Canada, Spain, Holland, and wherever else it’s now legal.

@SanFranLefty: Thanks. I believe you, of course, but still don’t understand.

@SanFranLefty: Not exactly. A foreign state judgment for gambling debts need not be honored — this comes up in Cal now and then when people get these kind of judgments in Nevada where they are OK. I could see a foreign state judgment re gay partner/spouse relationships getting the same shitty treatment.

@SanFranLefty: Amending the state constitution to ban interracial marriage would violate the U.S. constitution, as it is currently interpreted. Whether you can defeat a state constitutional amendment on the grounds that it conflicts with other parts of the state constitution is a tough issue, and one that is raised by today’s ACLU lawsuit.

@Dodgerblue: Is there any leverage in the fact that this was a stealth operation carried out by an out-of-state religious organization?

@Dodgerblue: Right. Thank you for the help here. My head is still buzzing from last night. But if we take a more abstract view of it – amending the state constitution to deny rights based upon the sexual orientation of the individual, or another way to look at it, based upon the gender of the person he/she intends to marry, would seem to implicate the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, si? And while gender and sexual orientation don’t get the same strict scrutiny review as race under US Const EP challenges, they do get heightened levels of scrutiny. And our state SC said it gets the same strict scrutiny under Cal Const EP challenges.

Re dumb initiatives – Maybe next year the Mormon Church can sponsor a ballot initiative constitutional amendment that says straight couples can only marry if they provide evidence of their fertility and intent to immediately breed.

@Lyndon LaDouche: No, but it’s an argument that is made pre-election not only on Prop. 8 but on some of the other idiotic propositions (namely Prop. 6 which would have given billions to law enforcement and added 30 new crimes to the Penal Code). Why should yee-haws in Utah write and get signatures for (and fund) a proposition, which when it is challenged post-passage, will require California taxpayer money for the AG’s office to defend the new law or amendment.

What remains to be seen and is somewhat inside baseball-ish, is whether or how well the state AG’s office will be in defending Prop. 8, and if the supporters will try to intervene to defend the proposition. Jerry Brown was pretty clear about his opposition to Prop. 8, and I could see a less-than-enthusiastic defense and the proponents arguing he has a conflict of interest. Of course, I also don’t see any major law firms touching this case with a 10-foot-pole in terms of defending the proposition.

@SanFranLefty: You’re right, but I don’t think the US Supremes have yet decided that discrimination based on sexual orientation is reviewed by strict scrutiny. IIRC, Lawrence v. Texas was decided on privacy grounds, not equal protection.

@SanFranLefty: for enough (Mormon) money, a law firm will do just about anything.

@Dodgerblue: for enough (Mormon) money, a law firm will do just about anything.

As I’ve never actually worked at a law firm, I defer to you on this, but given the big shitstorm that erupted at a law firm up here when two partners at the same firm went after each other over one’s donation to the Yes on 8 measure, I don’t know if it’d do much for internal harmony (or recruiting) for one of the firms to defend the proposition.

@Dodgerblue: What about Romer v. Evans? My memory (faded) is it was decided with an intermediate level of scrutiny under EP? Scalia’s dissent in Lawrence forecast that this was the road they were headed down with gay marriage.

@SanFranLefty: Does the Arkansas law keep single people from adopting as well? At any rate, I guess Brangelina won’t be moving there.

@Mistress Cynica: Single people can adopt or foster if they’re not cohabitating.

@All: Apologies for my ConLaw geek out here. I’ll try to stop.

@SanFranLefty: Don’t apologize. I find it very interesting and helpful.

@SanFranLefty: We eeeelitists love you for it. Keep on.

@SanFranLefty: I has a new Nancy avatar for you. It involves a fist.

@rptrcub: Me likey. It is time for a change, verdad?

@SanFranLefty: ¡Sí! One that reflects Nancy’s new found, evil liberal powers. It’s the new sign of the special society the Democrats have: The Circle of the Terrorist Fist Jab.

@SanFranLefty: I think Romer was decided on the “rational basis” test, striking down a Colorado anti-gay statute because it was fucking nuts. For non lawyer-geeks, this is the most deferential level of scrutiny the court uses when an equal protection claim is made. The toughest is strict scrutiny, which is used when an “invidious” classification is under review, e.g. Black children have to go to separate schools. Scalia had a particularly snarky dissent in Romer. Hey Antonio, your mama.

First Puppy Update!! with lots of photos of doggies. I vote for a mixed breed shelter rescue.

@Dodgerblue: I probably assumed they used a heightened level in Roper like in gender cases simply because 99.9% of the time rational basis challenges FAIL.

@SanFranLefty: I will be very upset if it’s not a shelter puppy. I’m almost as obsessed with the dog as with the cabinet.

@SanFranLefty: Aww cuuuute! The terrier in the first pic reminds me of this.

@SanFranLefty: A poodle-mutt like Pedo Jr. would be perfect for them. They can’t have him but I’d be happy to arrange play dates in the Rose Garden.

Love the pug. And I do have to vouch for Pedo Jr.’s bona fides.

But jeez, the puppy’s for the girls. I hope they can find a dog they like without the whole world vetting the decision. If Malia wants a goldendoodle, I hope PETA shuts the fuck up.

Oh, the puppies made my day/night/whatever. Love the Boston Terriers!

settle down people! this is the closest we have ever been to a scotus opinion on the universal legality of gay marriage.
when barry makes his appointments, may one have the chutzpah of nino–only for our side, if that what it takes. hopey eluded this issue somewhat, but he’s too smart not to see how ludicrous this gay marriage mess is.

@nabisco: Many thanks for linking to Newseum. What a treasure trove, and I never heard tell of it before.

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