The Amazing Roubini

And Greenspan apologizes for what he did. Americans reduce the quantity and quality of the food they’re buying. Deloitte sez holiday spending will be down. My state has the second worst number of job losses in the nation (though the rate is only 6.5%). Wonderful, wonderful day.

I have never been happier to derive the majority of my salary from people drinking beer.

Jeeze, at least give me credit, and I did some investigative work, found another indicator, with a high ranked source, too.

homofascist: LOLZ!

@rptrcub:

“Oops, guess there’s no such thing as an invisible hand after all! My bad!”

@rptrcub: Remember, we can lay the blame not only at Greenspan’s feet, but at Gramm’s as well. Torches and Pitchforks, my friends ….

@blogenfreude: Waterboards! thats not torture! How can they prosecute us for legal “enhanced interrogations?”

@blogenfreude: He’s not accepting blame, he’s only admitting a flaw. Asshat.

@Mistress Cynica: Thats a change from the usual excuse for the failure of deregulation, which is, “The democrats wouldn’t let us go FAR enough. If we could only completely deregulate, then the mighty invisible hand would have ushered in an unprecedented era of peace and prosperity.” I did plagiarize Steve Forbes there a little, except with him it was the flat tax.

Whatever.

That Roubini dude is just a nattering nabob of negativism.

@Prommie: Your economic indicator freaked me out, frankly. And then I read in the Economist about how GMAC has totally slashed loan approvals. Nobody can finance those $35 K cars.

@SanFranLefty: Seriously, SFL, part of my job is looking at this data, and this particular data, daily title transactions processed, I can get it day by day, way way before any analysts are compiling it. Here’s the deal, this is a secret, I can trust you, here on the internet, right? My association has a privatization state contract to process motor vehicle transactions, we own a state motor vehicle operation under a state contract, but we are limited to processing transactions from our members, which would be 100% of the new car dealers. I know the number of transactions processed day by day, I know, for example, when we send the staff home before lunch because there is no more work to do (it comes in in batches in the morning.) September, it was down 20-25% from the previous year, as reported by the analysts. But October, when the figures come out, its gonna be a disaster. As I said, so far this week, down somewhere around 60 to 75%. The Christmas retails season is gonna be a disaster, I predict, the auto sales are gonna be at 1960s levels. This is the bottom up effect, so far all the news is the top down stuff. Yes, GMAC will no longer loan to anyone with a score below 700. That rules out 55% of the population. There are no leases anymore, every lender has gotten out of leases. Not that the credit crunch is the culprit, I think, because the fact is consumers are terrified and aren’t even showing up and applying for credit.

Layoffs, everywhere, in my industry. This will take a month or two to show up in the published stats, of course.

If it doesn’t change drastically, soon, we are so so so fucked.

@Promnight:
How low can the auto stocks go? They are already at 1960s levels. 1920s? 1890s?

A friend of mine in the auto retail industry mentioned that the largest GM dealer declared bankruptcy last month. About the only cars selling in Canada City are small cars while the used car lots are filled with Trucks and SUVs.

OT: Bachman behind Tickleberry by 3 points.
We are sending her back to the baby farm.

@Promnight: But you know, as painful as this is, I feel like it’s a correction of sorts. I would watch car ads on teevee and ask Mr. SFL, “how can anyone afford a car when it’s practically my annual salary?” [I was raised by parents who bought all their cars in cash, I have done the same for mine and have never spent more than $8000 for a car]. Mr. SFL would patiently explain to me about these things called car loans and leases and I would get confused and say “But by the time you pay it off in 5 or 7 years the thing is depreciated down to be worth 2 grand.” And he’d explain how 95% of US ‘Merikans just wanted fancy new cars and didn’t live within their means like we did and save up money for years to buy a car or make a major purchase.

So yes it sucks for all of us to have this crashing down, but for all my adult life I felt that it was unsustainable to have an economy based on overconsumption and racked-up credit.

@SanFranLefty: Oh, a correction was coming, the last 3 years the word we used was “the inustry is cannibalizing next year’s sales with these programs.” By which I mean, every year, there are gonna be a certain number of poeple who need new cars. When the market started to decline 3 years ago, the manufacturers responded with aggresive programs, thats the $3,000 rebates, the 0% financing, those deals entice people who would have waited another year before bying another car to jump early, so it helps this year, but then they are not in the market the next year. So a correction was coming.

And the year over year up until September this year was a correction, a 20 to 25% reduction in sales. Thats a huge correction, a major correction, it was gonna cause real pain. Just imagine your employer dealing with a 25% decrease in its budget this year, would you feel safe and secure?

But this thing that has happened since September, since the market crash, its way way beyond correction, my dear SFL. 50 to 75% reduction in sales? Thats a crash. Businesses cannot survive that, no business can survive a 50% decrease in sales, not if it lasts more than a month or two. Your fixed expenses are tied to your expected income, noone, nooone plans for a sudden 50% drop, noone.

I say great depression. I say, 20% unemployment within 6 months.

Okay, maybe its local and temporary, pray it is, but these are statewide numbers for a wealthy state. If this is happening nationally, and it hits the rest of retail in anything close to the same degree, seriously, our ecomomy has died. Its flatlined.

@Promnight: Well, if people in your state can’t buy cars, then people really can’t buy them in the other 48 (maybe Connecticut still can? But no, hedge funds going down). So then what happens? It’s not like the US car makers are making cars that get more mileage or that are affordable, so the factories will be shutting down. Ironically, it will be the Japanese automaker factories (all in the south where unions have no power) building fuel-efficient and more affordable cars that will stay in business.

I feel like the economies of Michigan and Indiana were on life support, but having the US automakers and last few suppliers in their states go belly up will be the suffocating pillow. No disrespect to any Rust Belt stinquers, but seriously what’s left when the auto industry completely dies in Michigan or Indiana? A few state universities?

@Promnight: A correction has been coming since — oh, I dunno, when were SUVs introduced? And who in both parties resisted including SUVs in passenger-car CAFE standards? And how long have we known that, golly, God didn’t make enough dinosaurs to fuel our engines forever?

We’ve seen this coming for decades. Nice people are gonna get hurt, but they’re gonna get hurt a lot more than if we had dealt with this a long time ago.

@SanFranLefty: The Economist is great airplane reading. 45 minutes into it, I’m asleep.

@nojo: And if people drive less, we might gain a few more hours before the Earth fries and the melting icecaps wipe out all the liberal elite coastal cities. The pigfuckers will survive, like the cockroaches.

@Dodgerblue: How will the pigfuckers survive? The first thing we Coasties take over will be the Wal-Mart distribution hubs.

Oh, let’s call a spade a, er, spade:
THIS IS ALL REAGAN’S FAULT AND WE TOLD YA ALL ALONG IT WAS A FUCKING STUPID IDEA.
Somehow, having been right all these years isn’t as sweet as I had hoped it would be.
To everyone who bought into the bullshit: Thanks for the misery, assholes.

Can I haz a smidgen of Teh Hope (TM)?

@SanFranLefty: Lurker here. So true about the Japanese auto makers. The only thing is that the same fucking thing happened in ’79. It was during that oil crisis that Toyota and Honda gained their incredible foothold in the American market.

My family had a Chrysler New Yorker, 6 miles to the gallon (you could hold Thanksgiving dinner in that car) and we commuted between Agoura and LA 5 days a week (40 miles each way).

A month into the crisis we got rid of the Chrysler and bought a Datsun and so did everybody else. ::Cough::Chryslerbailout::Cough. So did these motherfuckers learn from that, no they fucking limped along, turning out shitty car after shitty car, lobbying against mileage standards, and when the economy got better started churning out the SUVs cause you know sunshine was gonna shine out of our ass forever. Meanwhile, Toyota and Honda are developing viable hybrids.

And unfettered capitalism skull fucks us yet again. What galls me is that I can figure this shit out based upon an adolescent memory and Rick Wagoner can’t. I can remember when nobody could make their umbrella payment, and the real estate market crashed, and Alan Greenspan can’t.

It’s French Revolution time. Grab these fuckers from their bed and behead them in the public square. It’s the only thing that will cow them into submission.

@cassandra_said: Welcome, and glad you decided to chime in. I remember the 70s too, and most of the 80s. You’re so right, as is @Ewalda. To quote my favorite Calvin & Hobbes line: “Live and don’t learn, that’s us.”

TJ: Joe the Brother has an entitlement problem.
From Alexandria, VA local news:

A 911 tape, reportedly of Sen. John McCain (web|news|bio) ‘s brother Joe, could prove controversial for the McCain camp since the call was not for an emergency, but rather to complain about being stuck in traffic.

The call came into Alexandria’s 911 system on October 21.

Operator: 911 state your emergency

Caller: It’s not an emergency, but do you know why on one side at the damn drawbridge of 95 traffic is stopped for 15 minutes and yet traffic’s coming the other way?

Operator: Sir, are you calling 911 to complain about traffic? (pause)

Caller: “(Expletive) [Fuck] you.” (caller hangs up)

The complaint call about traffic on the Wilson Bridge forced the 911 dispatcher to call back. The voice mail on the other end, appears to belong to Joe McCain, brother of presidential candidate, John McCain.

“Hi this is Joe McCain. I can’t take this message now because I’m involved in a very (inaudible) important political project. I hope on November 4th we have elected John.”

But that wasn’t all. McCain apparently called 911 again to complain about the message the operator just left him, warning him such use of 911 is criminal.

Caller: Somebody gave me this riot act about the violation of police.

Operator: Did you just call 911 in reference to this?

Caller: Yeah.

Operator: 911 is to be used for emergencies only not just because you’re sitting in traffic.

@Mistress Cynica: I think you’re forgetting, for Joe McCain, 911 is a personal reference service, much like the reference line at the library, except, you know, for real stuff. Traffic reports, complaints about the weather, the filthy homeless guy washing his window at the stoplight, it’s all good. Joe’s better than us. He’s important, and don’t you forget it.

@cassandra_said: Now that’s a Stinque Debut. Anyone who can work skullfucking and beheading into an opening rant has a future here.

@nojo, cass: I’m seeing classical mythology and the Velvets in her name.

@cassandra_said:
Don’t be a stranger.

@all
Like in regards to oil, the NA auto industry had a 20+ year reprieve. Instead of trying to compete, they fell back into their old habits and now the Four Cars of the Autopocalypse are coming for them.

@Ewalda:
Being right is never is sweet especially when the end result is bad. It’s not just Reagan, but it certainly begins with him. The unthinking small dicked morons who bought into the SUV/Truck mystique certainly own a piece. The car makers (even the Japanese) own a piece.

@cassandra_said: are you a cousin of Chainsaw? bienvenidos amiga. Nice literary reference, too.

@cassandra_said: Lurker no more. Welcome.

Umm, my association represents imports too, as of now, more import dealers than domestic, and guess what, they are down just as much. This has nothing to do with the American auto industry and gas guzzlers, folks; kinda knee-jerk, really, to take it that way, in fact, but very PC. This is a story about the public not buying anything. Because the economy died.

Did I break out sales by SUV vs. economy cars? Domestic vs. import? Nope. Lotsa assuming, but very fashionable assumptions, so its OK, I guess. Every armchair asshole, after all, knows better than any CEO.

Detroit makes great small fuel efficient cars, and they are reliable, too. People don’t buy them. Toyota just spent a Billion on a factory to make a giant, 16 mpg pickup, its gonnna have to close it. Demand drove the market, dudes and dudettes.

@Prommie:
Oops. Your point is valid.

Hard to think at 7am…

@ManchuCandidate: I will say that cheap gas is what encouraged the public to demand huge cars, and through the 90s, gasoline was unnaturally cheap in the US, $1.00 a gallon when the rest of the world was paying $3.00. But damn, people didn’t go back to buying big chryslers because detroit mugged them and carved “GM” in their faces, they did it because gas was cheap, and as long as gas is cheap, people want big cars. I suppose GM should have been like the soup nazi, “No, no SUV for you. You drive Saturn.” Gee, whats the story behind the ballooning size and number of foreign-made SUVs, and the declining mileage of same, over the last 10 years? Did Detroit strongarm the imports and make them get stupid too? Hell, Honda was scrambling to come up with a huge SUV, and Nissan (the Armada, thats a name) and the size of the Toyotas, its like every model of Toyota SUV went on a massive steroid binge and doubled in size since 2000. I truly don’t understand this idea that detroit execs are inherently stupid. Though many progressives are knee-jerk xenocentrics, they do tend to despise their own familiar culture while fetishizing the foreign and exotic. Ya see it it stuff like the affection undergrad-level intellectuals give to foreiegn religions. Oh, christianity, what stupid superstition, no, its that enlightened Tibetan Buddhism, thats the ticket, there’s no superstition there, just burnt offerings, prayer wheels, omnipresent demons and a pantheon of deities. Thats a logical religion, worthy of respect.

Nissan’s light truck fleet average fuel economy for 2007 was exactly the same as Ford’s. VW’s was the highest in the industry, because of the Touareg. This is light trucks, which would be SUVs and pickups, up to 8,500 pounds, very very few passenger vehicles are heavier than that.

@Prommie:
True, but here in Canada City we have an environment surcharge that was placed on vehicles except SUVs and light trucks and they did some other rules to help push SUVs.

What exacerbated this was that our PM at the time cut all funding for research into alternative fuels and power as well.

As for foreign cars. Some people buy because they are exotic, but not me. My “still resents the Japanese” dad would love to buy domestic, but after the mess that was his Grand Marquis, he will only buy Honda.

The Honda Civic I drive has given me zero trouble and it has pretty good mileage which is why I bought it and not Acura RSX I really wanted. The bonus is that it is not really a foreign car as it is made in Allison Ontario.

@SanFranLefty: Michigan has a few nice beaches….that are usable for about 2 1/2 months of the year. And some pretty fall colors in the northern bit, but then again no one can afford to drive up that far.

@ManchuCandidate: Don’t forget the tremendous tax incentives US American businesses got for buying SUVs rather than smaller cars. No, it’s not the auto execs who were pushing big stupid cars, it’s the US populace who wants to buy big stupid cars. Car companies were, not unreasonably (given that profit on SUVs is higher) making and pushing the bigger cars.

Another factor which can’t be ignored in all of this is the influence (however subtle or overt) of Big Oil on how decisions are made. I’m not going to credit that they’re suppressing 100 MPG carburetors or anything tinfoilish like that, but lobbying happens, and the oil barons have a lot of lobbyists.

At any rate, for better or worse, Cars, big and small, efficient or not, are a big part of the economy, and the point is, that large part of the economy has declined catastrophically in the last 3-4 weeks. Cat-fucking-ass-fucking-strophically.

@Prommie:

Ooooh, spanked by Prommie.

I think we’re talking oranges and tangelos here. The economic crisis and the resulting credit crunch are killing any industry that relies heavily on credit to purchase its product.

My main point is the lack of foresight by the American auto industry and yes, that does make the american auto CEOs stupid in my eyes. If there had not been the credit crisis, oil would still be over $100 a barrel and they would be facing the same issues they did in the late 70’s – no product to fill the need for high MPG vehicles. SUVs sales have been flat-lining for the last year or so (at the least) and there was no decent American product to fill that void and while they probably wouldn’t be facing industry wide bankruptcies, they would certainly be behind the eight ball yet again.

They’re all greedy fucks in my book and we’ll be the ones with the sore asses for the next decade.

Et alia: Thanks for the welcome.

SFL: No relation to FCS but most definitely a fan of his prose.

There are decent american products, you are reciting a shibboleth. They are still suffering lingering distrust over the horrible quality of the 70s, brand loyalty, once lost, is hard to regain. Brand loyalty is also generally an irrational thing and is more about self-image than objective assessment. VWs, for example, are well designed and horribly executed vehicles, buy one, you WILL have defects, many of them, most electrical, yet they have a fanatic cult following. Mid-sized GM sedans right now are the equal of any Accord or Camry, they are cheaper, and they have amazing powerful engines that sip gas. And they last 150,000 miles now, too. Serious car people know it, but there is a lingering stigma as people remember the cars of the 70s, which were good for 70,000 miles at best. Chrysler sucks, Dieter can lick my balls.

We are actually talking about apples and meteorites, my defense of the manufacturers is just a side-track. You are talking about the complicated factors contributing to the donwfall of the american manufacturers. Other than to respond to you, I am talking about the state of the economy as reflected in retail sales, of ALL types and makes of autos. I am suggesting it is a sign of what will soon be seen in all sectors of the economy, not just those which rely on credit, for as I said, it doesn’t matter that credit is harder to get, because there are no buyers seeking credit right now. And there are layoffs occurring now, that you wont see in published figures for 2 weeks, and each person laid off is one more person who won’t be buying much, paying mortgage much, etc., so soon other businesses which relied on the patronage of these laid off people will be hit. What I am suggesting is that what is being reported is the tip of the iceberg, that in the last 3 weeks the mainstreet economy drove of a cliff, and this thing is so much bigger than the credit crisis, and by the way, recognition of this is widely reported as the reason for the world-wide sell-off today.

Et Alia means “among others.” Not “to you all,” or whatever you seem to be suggesting, unless you are suggesting you had other things to say besides “thanks for the welcome” and thus you say that among the others, that would theoretically make sense, but then the usage would be wrong, with the full colon and all.

A@Prommie:

I’m a tenacious bitch so from the OED:

A[Abbrev. of L. et alii (masc.), et aliæ (fem.) or et alia (neut.), ‘and others’.]

And others. (Used esp. to avoid giving a list of authors, etc., in full.)

1883 in S. FALLOWS Handbk. Abbrevs. 10/2. 1907 W. JAMES Let. 13 Sept. in R. B. Perry Tht. & Char. of W. J. (1935) II. 482 As overcomer of Baumgarten, Crusius et al., he [sc. Kant] was no doubt great. 1959 Listener 13 Aug. 256/2 He relegates Hamilton et al. to a prologue and epilogue. 1962 G. K. HUNTER John Lyly ii. 39 Lyly no doubt completed his school career..having read, construed and explicated innumerable passages of Ovid, Cicero, Virgil, et al.

Just trying to include both the women and men I was addressing.

I believe you are referring to inter alia. Again from the OED:

The L. preposition = ‘between’, ‘among’, occurs in a few Latin phrases occasional in Eng., e.g. inter alia, amongst other things (less usually inter alios, amongst others, other persons); inter nos, between ourselves; inter partes (Law), of an action: relevant only to the two parties in a particular case (see quots. 1966); of a deed or the like: made between two parties; inter se, between or among themselves; inter vivos, between living persons (esp. of a gift as opposed to a legacy). (Rarely with English object.)

I’m not sure why we are disagreeing. I am not blaming the Auto CEOs for the financial crisis. I was including everybody from Bush & Co. to the financial cretins that came up with derivative schemes in my greedy fucks.

The point I was trying to make in my original post is that the auto industry’s inability to learn from it’s mistakes, committed only 29 years ago, will deepen the crisis.

And just to let you know, your food porn, has not only titillated ([f. L. titillt-, ppl. stem of titillre to tickle.] 1. trans. To excite or stimulate as by tickling; esp. to excite agreeably, gratify (the sense of taste, smell, or touch, the imagination); = TICKLE v. 3.) me, it has caused me to make some more imaginative choices in my own cooking. So there.

Now I’m off to read the other posts……

@cassandra_said: I’m a tenacious bitch so from the OED:

I think I’m in love.

I was foolish enough not to take up QPB on their mini-OED offer back in the day, and I’ve regretted it ever since.

@cassandra_said: and PROMMIE
facsinating! truly. boring as shit yet inexplicably enjoyable exchange.
thanks. but then i’m depressed, strange things are entertaining me.
cassandra, drop by more often!

@Prommie:

@baked:

Ah, the lovely Baked. Our paths have not crossed of late, the more my sorrow. Things looking up at all?

@nojo:

I think I’m in love.

You’re not alone.

(I picked up my mini OED used at Powell’s a few years back and have never regretted it, although I don’t seem to pull it out too often lately.)

@IanJ: It ain’t the OED, but I’ve been pleased with my American Heritage over the years. Every so often I go on a word-history jag, tracing things back to their Indo-European roots, then forward again to see how a very rudimentary word blossomed over time.

Some folks like doing that with Shakespeare, but he’s such an arriviste.

@Tommmcatt Yet Again:
ah, but alas sweet catt,
our resident stoner is still our stinquey lady of sorrow. the saga is spread out lightly, been around a little tonight after a medium sized nervous breakdown in incommunicato town. you guys are cheering me, as always.

kisses, i’m lurking.

@baked: Lurking makes sense to me, since I don’t know jack about cars, coding or discourse.

@nojo: I have a dictionary (can’t recall now which one) which I got from my parents. The reason they were discarding this dictionary? Absolute disgust. The story:

One of their exchange students was doing a paper for school on an initiative being voted on that year in Oregon. The initiative was a thinly-veiled anti-gay thing, which particularly called out pedophilia, among other things. Their French student looked up at them and said, “What’s pedophilia?” Ever the game researchers, they grabbed up the dictionary and spelled “pedophile” for her to look up. “It’s not there,” she said, after a few minutes of searching. (I wasn’t there, but I can picture the exchange perfectly.)

“What? Let me see that,” said my mom, concern, or possibly disbelief, crossing her face. This is a big, 10″ thick dictionary. Maybe Random House. She ran her finger down the page, and indeed, no “pedophile.” Nor any of a bunch of related words.

Ok, now, what the fuck? A dictionary which shies from defining words? Words that have been in common usage for years and years before it was published? Yeah, that kind of disgust.

Now that I have my four-page-per-page OED (which merrily defines pedophile, although I think they spell it paedophile), I should toss that other bastard book in the recycling bin.

@IanJ: I remember stories like that. And for the record, my 3rd Ed. Murrican Hurritage doesn’t shy away from shit, shitfaced, shithead, shitless and shitlist (“also ‘shit list'”).

“Middle English shitern, from Old English *scitan. See skei- in Appendix.”

Okay…

“skei-: To cut, split. Important derivatives are shin, science, conscious, nice, shit, schism, rescind, shed, sheath, ski, esquire, and squire.”

Science is da shit, yo.

@nojo: Science is nice. Allow me to sheathe my ski. Look out for my shin in your consciousness. I don’t think the church can rescind that schism.

Ok, I’m stopping now.

@Prommie: I drive a Saturn and I love it.

Oh, and I think Cassandra spanked you. tee hee!

@baked: Sister Baked, please don’t be a stranger. Let us know how you’re doing.

@nojo: @IanJ: Gentlemen, you’re making me blush.

@baked: Glad I could provide a little amusement. I’ve been lurking for awhile so here’s a revenge fantasy to keep you warm for a while:

March your beautiful self out your front door and find somebody to fall in lust with. You’re in T&C so that shouldn’t be too difficult. Bring him on the trip to Israel and explain his presence to Mr. Narcissistic Shithead Baked by letting him know that you needed something to do with your time while he was off with his “dalliance”.

@cassandra_said:

I agree. Nothing like a good stiff one to clear away the blues.

@cassandra_said: yes, but its to be used when quoting, not addressing, people, as the OED says. And the accepted convention is to mention one or more, and follow the one exemplar with ‘et alia” to indicate “among others who also said this.” And the full colon? If you want to use it the way you did, you would say “to Tomcat, et alia, thank you for the welcome.” Now call truce or I will taunt you a second time. I normally pride myself on my poor grammar, its a conscious effort to make myself more approachable. I am a tenacious bitch, too. I would be more respectful of your US auto industry analysis if you also included some discussion of some basic economic factors, such as the issue of health care, which is a much lower proportion of total costs for japanese manufacturers, and the demographic problem, the US manufacturers are dealing with a much larger number of pensioners, because they have been employing large numbers of people for a longer time than the japanese companies. Just an example, inter alia.

But really, I would lay off most readily if, after giving your opinion, you would temper it with some recognition of the fact you are not an expert industry analyst and this is your view and you could be wrong, being, like all of us, not omnisicient. You might observe if you read carefully that most of us will offer little caveats like this, as a courtesy so that discussions don’t turn into pissing matches. Not to mention that this being the internet and the fact that you don’t know the background of the people you are talking to, you might actually be talking to someone who knows more than you on the subject. Not saying I do, but you don’t know that.

Now may we have a truce, please?

And welcome, I am glad we have another bold and opinionated stinker here.

@Promnight: inter alia is “among others,” not et alia.

@cassandra_said: Hello there!

@SanFranLefty: Hot lips, what Texas did last weekend was a spanking, not this.

@Promnight:

Oh, I most definitely desire a truce but I have a few caveats.

1. The recognition that the American automaker without the financial crisis would still be in a world of hurt due to the oil crisis. You cite VW, however, in the early 90’s they were known for making shitty cars. They still make shitty cars, however, they figured out a way to market themselves out of that perception. American automakers have not used that same acumen. They have had 20 some years to change the perception. They ran with the idiotic American desire to have huge vehicles and hoped that history would not repeat itself. It has and there is no Prius up their sleeve.

2. My rant was against the all the pigfuckers. I do believe that I mentioned Greenspan and his fatal fucking flaw.

3. I am just trying to join a conversation that I have admired since the website that shall not be named.

All of the above would be open to negotiation if you give me a good casssoulet recipe.

@cassandra_said: Well played, seer.
Prommie, you better come up with a cassoulet recipe, unless you prefer being slapped around some more!

@cassandra_said: I never denied that the US automakers are hurting, independant of the financial collapse. It wasn’t the subject I was interested in discussing. I just disputed your explanation for the cause, and not that your explanation is not true in part, just that the world, and my industry, is a little more complex than your explanation. And your perception that US automakers got nothing and everyone thinks there cars stink is belied by the fact that GM still sells more cars in the US than any manufacturer, its only 2 years ago Toyota beat Ford for the first time.

If you want to join the conversation, go ahead, my message was that retail on the main street level has collapsed in the last 3 weeks, I see it in daily reports that will not be compiled and reported in the economic news till the first week of next month. My post had nothing to do with US versus import sales, and in fact, GM is down less than Toyota, nor with whether efficient cars are selling better than inefficient cars. My post had no message to it other than there is data I am seeing which indicates that the mainstreet economy is collapsing, not the financial markets, and not the credit markets, we all know that, its been reported. The decline in car sales is not connected to the unavailability of credit, its due to their being no buyers even applying for credit.

I don’t think there is anything more specific than that can be drawn from what I have seen, and I was commenting on the state of the economy as indicated by retail automotive sales.

You are going off on an unrelated tangent and bashing the US auto industry, and I am just a little defensive because its the only fucking major manufacturing industry we have left and the major base of any remaining union strength in this country and its all good for you to say ‘fuck the US automakers, they’re idiots,” but then you are also saying “fuck all you american workers in the last major industrial sector we have.” If we have to subsidize the US auto makers for a few years until they come out with their electic and hybrid vehicles, we should, for the sake of those millions of workers who depend on that industry for jobs. And the millions more who depend on those workers for their jobs. You sound like a “free market, loser take the hindmost” kinda person with your vitriolic attack on the sole major unionized manufacturing industry we have left. What, you want them to die, and all the jobs to flee overseas?

True cassoulet is only made in Carcassone, you don’t want to know how to make it. Even in France, they don’t try to make it at home, they buy canned cassoulet. First, you have to make duck confit, a messy and laborious thing, and then make a version of boston baked beans, but with the duck confit as a major ingredient, then you take your cassoulet pot to the local bakery on Sunday, and they will put it in the bread ovens to cook all day. Just as was the original practice with Boston Baked beans. I am fascinated by convergences.

Yes, I could come up with an approximation possible in an american kitchen. Last time I tried, I had found vac-packed duck legs in my shitty supermarket marked down to half price because stupid americans don’t know what to do with duck, and I bought a bunch, and I did the slow long sorta frying, sorta stewing in oil process, then packed my duck legs in a huge tupperware and covered with the rendered fat, and put it in the back of the fridge to age, a few weeks is good for confit, and my fucking housekeeper found them and its not an attractive looking thing, aging confit, and she threw them away, not to blame her because I often leave old moldy things in the back of my fridge that I am glad she throws away, but anyway, this was a monthlong project, and I was so heartbroken the thought of starting over still hurts and I have not tried again.

But if you will stop playing “look at how bold and fiesty I am” and just be a person with me, I will try again, for you. We could do it together, it takes a week, at least.

Where are you from, what do you do, married? Ever had a threesome? Be a person.

@cassandra_said: What music are you listening to? I am an unreconstructed old school Ramones and Clash punker. I have hemmoroids, the nurse actually made a “Oh, thats a big hemoroid” remark last time I had a finger up my ass. I hate being old. If McCain wins, I will probably drink myself to death if I can’t emigrate quickly. You?

@Promnight: At the moment, I am listening to Jenny Lewis ( Rilo Kiley bandmember), Wilco’s Sky Blue Sky and an Irish bank called the Thrills. I pay my respects to Johnny Ramone when I go to the Hollywood Cemetery movies in Los Angeles where I live. I’m single and have not had a finger up my ass lately, regrettably.

@cassandra_said:

Darling, don’t tease Prom so. It makes him edgy.

@cassandra_said:

ALSO: I am in West Hollywood, as if you couldn’t tell already.