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	<title>Comments on: The Scene of the Crime</title>
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	<description>If it smells, we&#039;re on it.</description>
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		<title>By: Dodgerblue</title>
		<link>http://www.stinque.com/2009/11/13/the-scene-of-the-crime/#comment-55114</link>
		<dc:creator>Dodgerblue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 16:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Way off topic:  Hey JNOV and SFL, let&#039;s whomp on those Spoiled Children today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Way off topic:  Hey JNOV and SFL, let&#8217;s whomp on those Spoiled Children today.</p>
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		<title>By: al2o3cr</title>
		<link>http://www.stinque.com/2009/11/13/the-scene-of-the-crime/#comment-55108</link>
		<dc:creator>al2o3cr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 15:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-55093&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;SanFranLefty&lt;/a&gt;: 

Actually, one of the favorite RW paranoid memes about the trials is that some group will decide to threaten NYC with an attack unless the suspects are released (apparently AQ has been watching old Dukes of Hazzard reruns or something).

I&#039;ve got a similar concern - that if the trial starts to go badly for the government (eg, on the torture angle) that some of the &#039;baggers would decide to have a &quot;lynching&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-55093" rel="nofollow">SanFranLefty</a>: </p>
<p>Actually, one of the favorite RW paranoid memes about the trials is that some group will decide to threaten NYC with an attack unless the suspects are released (apparently AQ has been watching old Dukes of Hazzard reruns or something).</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve got a similar concern &#8211; that if the trial starts to go badly for the government (eg, on the torture angle) that some of the &#8216;baggers would decide to have a &#8220;lynching&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: lynnlightfoot</title>
		<link>http://www.stinque.com/2009/11/13/the-scene-of-the-crime/#comment-55102</link>
		<dc:creator>lynnlightfoot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stinque.com/?p=15694#comment-55102</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-55054&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jamie Sommers&lt;/a&gt;: Kudos for &quot;Goodhair/Badbrain.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-55054" rel="nofollow">Jamie Sommers</a>: Kudos for &#8220;Goodhair/Badbrain.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Just Nabisco</title>
		<link>http://www.stinque.com/2009/11/13/the-scene-of-the-crime/#comment-55095</link>
		<dc:creator>Just Nabisco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-55093&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;SanFranLefty&lt;/a&gt;: Notice there are new, cleaned up photos of these guys? Look for new evidence elicited after Hopey&#039;s We Dont Torture XO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-55093" rel="nofollow">SanFranLefty</a>: Notice there are new, cleaned up photos of these guys? Look for new evidence elicited after Hopey&#8217;s We Dont Torture XO.</p>
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		<title>By: SanFranLefty</title>
		<link>http://www.stinque.com/2009/11/13/the-scene-of-the-crime/#comment-55093</link>
		<dc:creator>SanFranLefty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 06:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-55076&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Promnight&lt;/a&gt;: &lt;i&gt;&quot;how can you try someone who has been tortured, held without trial and counsel, a US prosecutor in a US court with all the evidence rules and constitutional jurisprudence concerning coercive interrogation, how do they get past the illegal treatment these people have received up to this point?&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Ding ding ding - you have identified the problem. 

You can&#039;t. 


Unless we&#039;re going to toss the entire Constitution out the window in federal district court. Points to Hopey Unicorn for this dice toss. I hope they have something independently credible to use against KSM.


Pass the popcorn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-55076" rel="nofollow">Promnight</a>: <i>&#8220;how can you try someone who has been tortured, held without trial and counsel, a US prosecutor in a US court with all the evidence rules and constitutional jurisprudence concerning coercive interrogation, how do they get past the illegal treatment these people have received up to this point?&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Ding ding ding &#8211; you have identified the problem. </p>
<p>You can&#8217;t. </p>
<p>Unless we&#8217;re going to toss the entire Constitution out the window in federal district court. Points to Hopey Unicorn for this dice toss. I hope they have something independently credible to use against KSM.</p>
<p>Pass the popcorn.</p>
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		<title>By: Pedonator</title>
		<link>http://www.stinque.com/2009/11/13/the-scene-of-the-crime/#comment-55083</link>
		<dc:creator>Pedonator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 03:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-55076&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Promnight&lt;/a&gt;: Not to mention, the jury selection process alone will take years.

If They had treated this properly as a criminal act from the very beginning, instead of declaring War on some vague definition of Terror, and not used that as an excuse to &lt;strike&gt;inflict Their psychosexual and non-consensual sadistic inclinations upon their helpless &quot;enemy combatants&quot;&lt;/strike&gt; line the pockets of their friends at Halliburton and Blackwater and such nefarious ilk, perhaps we&#039;d all be treated to a more realistic airing of the dirty laundry behind the 9-11 attacks. 

But obviously, that would be a laughable expectation from the likes of the Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft/Gonzalez administration of justice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-55076" rel="nofollow">Promnight</a>: Not to mention, the jury selection process alone will take years.</p>
<p>If They had treated this properly as a criminal act from the very beginning, instead of declaring War on some vague definition of Terror, and not used that as an excuse to <strike>inflict Their psychosexual and non-consensual sadistic inclinations upon their helpless &#8220;enemy combatants&#8221;</strike> line the pockets of their friends at Halliburton and Blackwater and such nefarious ilk, perhaps we&#8217;d all be treated to a more realistic airing of the dirty laundry behind the 9-11 attacks. </p>
<p>But obviously, that would be a laughable expectation from the likes of the Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft/Gonzalez administration of justice.</p>
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		<title>By: Promnight</title>
		<link>http://www.stinque.com/2009/11/13/the-scene-of-the-crime/#comment-55080</link>
		<dc:creator>Promnight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 03:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-55077&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;FlyingChainSaw&lt;/a&gt;:  Beck has been pretty much non-existent since his little &quot;appendicitus&quot; problem.  Tertiary Syphillis is a hell of a disease.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-55077" rel="nofollow">FlyingChainSaw</a>:  Beck has been pretty much non-existent since his little &#8220;appendicitus&#8221; problem.  Tertiary Syphillis is a hell of a disease.</p>
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		<title>By: FlyingChainSaw</title>
		<link>http://www.stinque.com/2009/11/13/the-scene-of-the-crime/#comment-55077</link>
		<dc:creator>FlyingChainSaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 03:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I can&#039;t wait to see Beck and Fox News organize protests advocating this guy be thrown to the crowd to be subject to mob execution. If they were to try him anywhere, it should be in the pit at the site of the WTC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t wait to see Beck and Fox News organize protests advocating this guy be thrown to the crowd to be subject to mob execution. If they were to try him anywhere, it should be in the pit at the site of the WTC.</p>
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		<title>By: Promnight</title>
		<link>http://www.stinque.com/2009/11/13/the-scene-of-the-crime/#comment-55076</link>
		<dc:creator>Promnight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 03:34:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stinque.com/?p=15694#comment-55076</guid>
		<description>I have a real question, as a lawyer, how can you try someone who has been tortured, held without trial and counsel, a US prosecutor in a US court with all the evidence rules and constitutional jurisprudence concerning coercive interrogation, how do they get past the illegal treatment these people have received up to this point?

They must have evidence that is not a &quot;fruit of the poisonous tree,&quot; they cannot introduce any admissions or confessions resulting from their illegal  incarceration and torture, that much seems clear.  

Is there a way to hold that their status has changed, that their prior incarceration was as military prisoners, not POWs, but as illegal combatants nevertheless subject to military law, and that with their indictment, their status changed, and as long as they are afforded their rights as criminal defendants after this status change, all is OK?

I could almost buy into that, if no evidence resulting from torture is introduced, and they have all the rights of criminal defendants from this point on, I could swallow that.

The worst thing about the Bush administrations decision to go rogue with these guantanamo prisoners, was that from the beginning it was plain that it would make legitimate criminal prosecution problematic, and as an American, I certainly did and do want to see them subjected to legal, proper, lawful prosecution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a real question, as a lawyer, how can you try someone who has been tortured, held without trial and counsel, a US prosecutor in a US court with all the evidence rules and constitutional jurisprudence concerning coercive interrogation, how do they get past the illegal treatment these people have received up to this point?</p>
<p>They must have evidence that is not a &#8220;fruit of the poisonous tree,&#8221; they cannot introduce any admissions or confessions resulting from their illegal  incarceration and torture, that much seems clear.  </p>
<p>Is there a way to hold that their status has changed, that their prior incarceration was as military prisoners, not POWs, but as illegal combatants nevertheless subject to military law, and that with their indictment, their status changed, and as long as they are afforded their rights as criminal defendants after this status change, all is OK?</p>
<p>I could almost buy into that, if no evidence resulting from torture is introduced, and they have all the rights of criminal defendants from this point on, I could swallow that.</p>
<p>The worst thing about the Bush administrations decision to go rogue with these guantanamo prisoners, was that from the beginning it was plain that it would make legitimate criminal prosecution problematic, and as an American, I certainly did and do want to see them subjected to legal, proper, lawful prosecution.</p>
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		<title>By: Promnight</title>
		<link>http://www.stinque.com/2009/11/13/the-scene-of-the-crime/#comment-55075</link>
		<dc:creator>Promnight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 03:26:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Your choices are simple, they are war criminals, and you send them to the Hague to prosecute them, or they are criminal criminals, and you try them here, where we can sentence them to death, not that I believe in the death penalty, but these schmucks do.  But what you cannot do, under US law and international law, is execute them by executive fiat, as they want to do.  

These people are simply lawless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your choices are simple, they are war criminals, and you send them to the Hague to prosecute them, or they are criminal criminals, and you try them here, where we can sentence them to death, not that I believe in the death penalty, but these schmucks do.  But what you cannot do, under US law and international law, is execute them by executive fiat, as they want to do.  </p>
<p>These people are simply lawless.</p>
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